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| Sexism | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2005, 12:12 AM (1,189 Views) | |
| alamir | Apr 11 2005, 01:15 AM Post #16 |
Electricity is just Organized Lightning.
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Am I the only one that doesn't see sexism in either commercials? Porn, strippers, hookers, and blow-up dolls objectify people. Making people look like sexual objects and de-humanizing them. However there is a less degree of objectification in these commercials, they are simply judging them on a matter of physical beauty than actual sex, which although somewhat shallow is not completely dehumanizing them in dirty/sleezy way. For example, I like brunettes more than blonds, I can't help it but I do, I also like green eyes more than blue... but I like my blue shirt more than my green shirt... I agree with the commercials variety is nice...if there was no variety there'd be no "love at first sight." |
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| Deleted User | Apr 11 2005, 02:44 AM Post #17 |
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No, you're not the only one. I agree that neither of those commercials was sexist. Which, in part, explains the reaction to one and lack of reaction to the other. I'm all for feminism, but a lot of feminist groups are way too reactionary and overreactionary. It's not just feminists, either, but all sorts of groups that are, or at least feel they are, oppressed or descriminated against in one way or another. There really is no such group sticking up for (or looking out for, or fighting for.. whatever you want to call it) straight white males. Thus, you have a group or several groups overreacting and Is overreactionary a word?
I'd have to disagree with you there. |
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| Deleted Account | Apr 11 2005, 02:47 AM Post #18 |
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Why would you say that? |
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| Zero Resistance-ZNS | Apr 11 2005, 02:47 AM Post #19 |
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eÜil Zero lÖrd™
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Come to think of it... In those commercials...I didn't see any sexism. Only a subliminal message saying Variety is teh pwns. well, to me.... And overreactionary is not a word. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 11 2005, 03:05 AM Post #20 |
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Because it's irrational, and in the grand scheme of things, not true. Porn is merely a substitute or additive stimulus to aid in fantasy, and strippers are merely a live version of porn. Hookers are simply providers of physical sexual release when another method is unavailable or undesired, as are blow-up dolls. All of these things are just fulfilling roles. Sex, sexual desire, and a certain degree of sexual objectification, are all natural, necessary, and unavoidable. So, unless those involved have an unhealthy attitude towards them, they're perfectly healthy and acceptable. What's dehumanizing is denying our normal human desires, as they're part of what it means to be human. |
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| Zero Resistance-ZNS | Apr 11 2005, 03:23 AM Post #21 |
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eÜil Zero lÖrd™
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Try Prostitution. That might mean de-humanizing. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 11 2005, 03:25 AM Post #22 |
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I think I already addressed that. If you don't like prostitution, don't be a prostitute or enlist the services of one. But don't live in denial either. Prostitution has been around since the dawn of man, and everyone of us engages in it in one form or another. |
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| Zero Resistance-ZNS | Apr 11 2005, 04:39 AM Post #23 |
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eÜil Zero lÖrd™
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Nope. You haven't adressed it yet. And yes.... Prostitution has been here since the Dawn of man.... they just don't call it like that. |
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| desdemona | Apr 11 2005, 06:42 AM Post #24 |
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(wow, finally something I disagree with Phrank on  )Well both commercials strikes me as very lame (as do most commercials) but to be honest I do think there's a difference between sexism and 'reverse sexism' just as with racism and 'reverse racism'. All things are stupid and pointless and only benefits those who wants to keep the existing powerstructures - the old divide and rule tactics. But as the oppression of women and blacks are built in to this society, sexist and racist ideas are enforcing and justifying it. 'Reverse' sexism and racism are WRONG answers to the existing opression, but does not create it. neither does it challenge it in anyway, so it's basically harmless for the system. Which is also why the advertising industry gladly picks up of the so called power-feminism that embraces a lot of ideas you might call reverse sexism, like male strippers and so on. And the message that you can buy your way out of inequality with the way you dress and how many male strippers you watch plays right into the hands of advertising industry and those who pay them. So I don't find it very appealing, but yes I do think that 'regular' sexism or racism is worse. Having said that I must admit I don't define myself as a feminist, I think a lot of feminist are too anti-working class and does not see the real divisions in this society. And in that way I end up agreeing with Phrank a bit anyway (dang :P)
Well I know a bunch of guys looking out for SOME white straight males (like... the US government... they do a hell of a job looking after themselves and all their friends) but the rest os the so-called ordinary people, be they white or black, men or women are left to rot on their own. As long as they take care of their 2 jobs and pay the rent noone cares. The real division in this society is class, not gender or sex. Just take a look of the same US government... mostly white men yes, but also a few blacks and even women... and they still just look out for their kind - not other black or other women, but other fat cats. I know I've gone over the top already, but I just had to add something to the sex/porn discussion... if I were living in the US I'd probably agree with you Phrank. And I'm all for legalizing porn and prostitution. Porn or prostitution does not create de-humanization, but it reflects the de-humanization of the world we live in. It's not a haven for liberated sexuality, it's as twisted and sick as the rest of capitalism. I still think having it out in the open is a lot better than ban and opression. But yes I think it's dehumanizing to have to sell yourself to fullfill other peoples need, turning yourself into a machine or a robot (does anyone see the parallel to capitalist wage labour btw?). I think you could do a whole lot for prostitutes without any revolutions just by changing the policy on drugs though... but THAT'S a whole different discussion  (and yes I'm a Marxist )*steps off the soap box* |
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| Zero Resistance-ZNS | Apr 11 2005, 07:04 AM Post #25 |
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When did we fall on to the part of of Legalizing Porn/Prostitution. Hmm.... Legalizing Porn..... Eh, Just another way for the goverment to be a lazy mullettard. I mean, they try to destroy it, then suddenly "Eh, who the mullet cares? Everyones using it. Destroying it might lead to revolution... so, lets just forget it. And oh, forget about destroying drugs too." So, along with gay marriges, instead of actually thinking, they just allow it. Simple. But we're not talking about the lousy mullettard government, aren't we? Well, you know that It's all about love, not discrimiation. So, let Gays be... and about Sexism, It's hard to ignore it. I mean, just read the bible, you'll find Sexism[and Incest for that matter.] So, if you want to act, act now while there is still time, you might e toolate to stop it tommorow.[I think you're already too late] |
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| Tiger Diamond | Apr 11 2005, 11:25 AM Post #26 |
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Discrimination of males is just as much sexism as discrimination of females. It's not "reverse", or less wrong. And it is something I notice much more often in commercials, than what you call "regular sexism". Feminism is apparently pro-female, and whatever-male. They care about themselves, not equality. |
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| Deleted Account | Apr 11 2005, 01:36 PM Post #27 |
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Personally, I have to agree with that. Lately, feminism has evolved into "women>men," instead of a step towards equality. Real rights between men and women are so close in the US that I can't even tell the difference anymore, other than the fact that women may get slightly lower wages, and are allowed to beat on men. |
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| AHS- Lavin | Apr 11 2005, 02:24 PM Post #28 |
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animehighschool.net
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Right now the most discriminated against group is the average white male. It doesn't look like it to most people cause if the average white male says anything they are trying to be oppresive of other people. Currently if I apply for certain colleges that are traditionally multi-racial co-ed colleges, I am at a disadvantage. Races of minorty and women get extra points to get into said colleges. I personally don't give a care right now, cause I still have a good life. I am not for the average white male being discriminated against so that other groups can appear more equal, but I am not activly against it either. I think that the reason we don't hear about it as much is one of two reasons, one being how I stand on the issue, or they are ignorant of whats going on. Racism is much like the teasing that goes on in Kindergarden, you can whine and be teased more, stick up for yourself and become the bully, or you can just ignore it and shrug it off. I choose to ignore the teasing when I was that age, and I choose to ignore the discrimantion today. I still work as hard as I can, still enjoy life, and it doesn't effect me. The world will never be perfect, and we should not attempt to make it so. There will always be something someone doesn't like, and there is no way to make everyone happy. ~~~~~~ Ok. That rant kinda went weird. So I am starting another topic addressed here. The porn/postitute thing. I think that the current US laws for porn are good, it is availibe for those over 18, and if a parent thinks it is ok for their children to veiw those items they can purchuse it for them, or allow them to veiw it. Postitution should be made legal with regulation, so that people can know if the person they are hiring is without problems, such as an STD. I personally don't like the idea of prostitutation, but I understand that it will not go away, so I would like to see it safer for those that do use it. It all boils down to what a group of overparaniod parents expressing that what they teach their children is what all children should be taught. They complain if they see a nipple in a movie played on cable that has the proper rating, and warnings. They whine when a curse word is said on a show known to be ment for adults. They cry when they buy their kid a Austin Power talking action figure that says "Do I make you horny, Baby? Do I?" News Article Todays society is messed up, but it will move out of this groove as the next generation becomes adults, but it will find a new groove, and the cycle will continue for all of time. |
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| alamir | Apr 11 2005, 02:31 PM Post #29 |
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Electricity is just Organized Lightning.
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I'll agree that porn, strippers and hookers can be argued as not "objectifying" people, I'm sure there are endless debates about it. But as far as blow-up dolls ? I mean isn't that the very definition of objectifying a woman? Your litterally making a woman into an object to FiretrUCK. Not something to take out to dinner or to marvel at her intelligence (which would be wierd since she's full of air) but seriously, you're not making her into something like a statue of Aphrodite to marvel at the beauty of feminity ... ...but just as an object that looks like a girl to litterally just use for sex and then you toss her under you bed where you mom can't see her unless you forget to deflate her, in which case can increase your chances of getting caught, especially if you used helium for "variety." I hate when people use dictionaries to make a point, so I won't do it...merely state that I think it would agree with me on the case of blow-up dolls. And Zero Tolerance, Phrank did cover the topic of prostitution when he covered hookers didn't he? |
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| Tiger Diamond | Apr 11 2005, 02:56 PM Post #30 |
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@AHS- Lavin: I could mostly agree with you, except this:
Accepting and just living with society wrongs is the worst thing you can do. Yes, perfection is impossible, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make things as good and fair as we can, for everyone.
So what about mullets? |
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